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+--- Thread: PPS pcn, whilst delivering parcels for amazon. (/showthread.php?tid=135)
PPS pcn, whilst delivering parcels for amazon. - zyno - 10-09-2026
I just received a PCN in the post from PPS for parking on private land, “not displaying a valid permit.”
I thought it was from an ANPR camera, however it was from a parking warden however they did not display it on my windscreen rather instead they sent it through the post.
Could anyone give me any advice on what to do/say.
Thank you.
https://ibb.co/20cXkjbp
https://ibb.co/j9WCTX8T
images of the PCN letter i received & the sign.
RE: PPS pcn, whilst delivering parcels for amazon. - b789 - 10-10-2026
@zyno, the fact that the photographs were taken by a parking attendant rather than ANPR does not prevent PPS from issuing a Notice to Keeper (NtK) directly by post, provided they comply with paragraph 9 of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA).
However, there are already several issues with this NtK.
Firstly, where is the evidence that no valid permit was displayed? The two photographs are taken at night, from a considerable distance, and are of such poor quality that it is impossible to establish from them whether a permit was displayed on the windscreen.
Furthermore, the photographs are timestamped 20:22:02 and 20:22:07, just five seconds apart, whereas the alleged incident time is given as 20:29.
There is also a potential failure to comply with PoFA paragraph 9(2)(a), which requires the NtK to specify the period of parking. PPS merely state that the period was the unspecified time immediately preceding the incident time. That does not identify any actual period of parking.
Before doing anything else, please:
1. Show us the entire reverse of the NtK, as it contains important information needed to assess compliance with PoFA.
2. Log on to the PPS website using the PCN details and download all the evidential photographs available. Post those here as well, so we can establish whether PPS have any actual photographic evidence supporting their allegation.
2. Log on to the PPS website using the PCN details and download all the evidential photographs available. Post those here as well, so we can establish whether PPS have any actual photographic evidence supporting their allegation.
In the meantime, do not identify the driver. PPS have no idea who was driving and there is no legal obligation on the registered keeper to provide that information to a private parking company.
Any eventual appeal will be submitted solely in the capacity of registered keeper, without identifying the driver.
Do not pay or submit an appeal until we have examined the additional evidence and the reverse of the NtK.
RE: PPS pcn, whilst delivering parcels for amazon. - zyno - 10-11-2026
https://ibb.co/WWSdv3p5
this is the back of the parking charge & the photos taken by the parking attendant show clearly that there was no valid permit displayed at the time. I did have a permit however not for the place I was parking at as i was unsure it was a 24/7 controlled car park as I had quickly parked there to complete an amazon delivery.
RE: PPS pcn, whilst delivering parcels for amazon. - b789 - 10-11-2026
@zyno, thanks for providing the reverse of the NtK.
Having now seen both sides, I cannot see anything that remedies the previously identified failure to specify a period of parking, as required by PoFA paragraph 9(2)(a). That remains a potentially decisive point concerning keeper liability.
However, I still need you to log on to the PPS website at www.paypps.co.uk and check whether there are any additional photographs of the vehicle. If there are any beyond the two reproduced on the NtK, please download them and post them here. I want to see the complete photographic evidence before drafting the keeper appeal.
You have also mentioned that the vehicle was stopped briefly to make an Amazon delivery. That raises another potentially important argument.
In Jopson v Homeguard Services Ltd [2016] B9GF0A9E, HHJ Harris QC distinguished temporary stopping for loading or unloading from parking. Making a genuine delivery would therefore provide an additional defence, depending on the circumstances.
Can you confirm approximately how long the vehicle was stopped and whether the delivery was to someone at Donnington House?
Finally, do not identify the driver to PPS. The keeper has no legal obligation to do so. Any appeal will be made solely in the capacity of registered keeper, relying primarily on PPS's failure to establish keeper liability under PoFA, with the signage and delivery circumstances providing additional grounds where appropriate.
Let's see the remaining photographs, if any, before proceeding.
RE: PPS pcn, whilst delivering parcels for amazon. - zyno - 10-11-2026
https://ibb.co/KxHdsWrc
https://ibb.co/kVsW40jh
https://ibb.co/4w1KCFmG
https://ibb.co/FkVDxrTS
https://ibb.co/p6GTw0Hb
Here are some of the photos that was provided but as you can see there are too many to show, but there is a photo of the front of my vehicle showing that there is no one in the vehicle & that I do not have a valid permit for the car park. But I’ve shown the FULL pictures of the images I think are the most important and the smaller versions for all the other photos. Hopefully this helps you with quoting me an appeal for this.
Thank you!
RE: PPS pcn, whilst delivering parcels for amazon. - b789 - 10-12-2026
Thanks for providing the additional photographs. I have now reviewed them alongside both sides of the NtK.
PPS have photographs covering approximately six minutes, including close-ups of the windscreen. However, none of that corrects their failure to specify a period of parking on the NtK, as required by paragraph 9(2)(a) of Schedule 4 of PoFA.
There is also a further potential failure under paragraph 9(2)(e), concerning the mandatory statement about the creditor not knowing both the identity and service address of the driver.
These requirements are statutory conditions for transferring liability to the registered keeper. Photographs cannot retrospectively correct a defective NtK.
The Amazon delivery is also potentially important.
In Jopson v Homeguard Services Ltd [2016] B9GF0A9E, HHJ Harris QC distinguished genuine loading and unloading from ordinary parking. Depending on the precise circumstances, this could provide an additional defence to the underlying allegation.
You must now preserve all available evidence of the Amazon delivery, particularly anything establishing that a delivery was being made at that specific location on 1st October 2026, around 20:22–20:29.
This includes screenshots of the Amazon Flex app, delivery records, the delivery address, route history, GPS information, delivery confirmation and anything else identifying the location and timing of the delivery. Keep the original records wherever possible.
Ideally, the evidence should establish that the vehicle was stopped for the purpose of making a delivery to Donnington House or another address served by that car park, rather than being left there for an unrelated purpose.
Do not submit any of that delivery evidence to PPS at this stage. We want to preserve it for a possible POPLA appeal or subsequent court defence, without unnecessarily revealing the driver's identity.
For now, I suggest submitting the following appeal solely as the registered keeper, relying upon PPS's failure to comply with PoFA.
Quote:I appeal this Parking Charge Notice solely in my capacity as the registered keeper of the vehicle.
Your Notice to Keeper fails to comply with the mandatory requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA).
In particular:
1. Paragraph 9(2)(a): Your notice fails to specify the period of parking to which it relates. The statement that the period was some undefined time immediately preceding the incident date and time does not identify the required period of parking.
2. Paragraph 9(2)(e): Your notice also fails to expressly state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, as required by that provision.
Compliance with the applicable requirements of Schedule 4 is a prerequisite to transferring liability from the driver to the registered keeper.
Your failure to comply means that you cannot rely upon PoFA to recover the parking charge from me as keeper.
The identity of the driver has not been provided, and there is no legal obligation upon the keeper to identify the driver to your company. Nor does any provision of PoFA create a presumption that the keeper was the driver.
Accordingly, I require you to cancel this Parking Charge Notice.
If you refuse, please provide a POPLA verification code so that the matter may be referred for independent adjudication.
Submit this through the PPS online appeals facility, selecting Registered Keeper, not Driver, wherever that distinction is offered.
Keep a screenshot or PDF of the submitted appeal and its acknowledgement. Do not complete their transfer-of-liability form.
Finally, do not identify the driver at any stage of the appeals process. There is no legal obligation on the keeper to volunteer that information.
If/when PPS reject the appeal, we can examine their response and prepare a POPLA appeal addressing the PoFA defects, contractual signage and, where appropriate, the distinction between parking and loading/unloading established in Jopson.
The PoFA arguments concern keeper liability, whereas Jopson potentially challenges whether the underlying parking contravention occurred at all. Preserving the Amazon delivery evidence now ensures that this additional argument remains available should it become necessary.
RE: PPS pcn, whilst delivering parcels for amazon. - zyno - 10-12-2026
For evidence, I do not have much other than a screenshot of the amazon block time which shows 7:45-10:15pm & also the date. Do you think that would be enough evidence, as the parking charge was given within that time?
Also, for the appeal it requires my name & address AND “name and address of driver/keeper (if different from above)”. So shall I provide them with my details but obviously identify as the keeper & not the driver.
Do let me know as that will clarify things for me as you mentioned to not identify the driver at any stage of the appeal & me providing my details may result in doing what you mentioned me not to do.
Thank you!
RE: PPS pcn, whilst delivering parcels for amazon. - b789 - 10-12-2026
@zyno, the screenshot of your Amazon delivery block is useful, but on its own, it is insufficient evidence to establish that a delivery was being made at the location of the alleged parking contravention.
It confirms that an Amazon delivery block was scheduled between 19:45 and 22:15 on 1st October 2026, which includes the time of the alleged contravention. However, it does not establish where any deliveries were made or whether the vehicle was stopped at Donnington House for that purpose.
If we are going to rely on Jopson v Homeguard Services Ltd [2016] B9GF0A9E, we need better evidence connecting the delivery to that particular location.
Try to obtain delivery records, route history, GPS information, delivery confirmations or anything else from Amazon showing that a package was being delivered to Donnington House or an address served by that car park at approximately 20:22–20:29.
Preserve the screenshot you already have, but see what additional evidence you can obtain. The stronger the evidence connecting the delivery to that location, the better. Remember, Jopson distinguished genuine loading and unloading from ordinary parking, but it is not an automatic exemption for every delivery vehicle.
Now, regarding the appeal form and the driver's identity, I want to make this absolutely clear because it is an important distinction.
You are appealing as the registered keeper of the vehicle, not as the driver.
PPS already obtained the registered keeper's name and address from the DVLA. There is absolutely nothing wrong with providing those details again when submitting the appeal.
The form asks for:
• "YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS" – Enter the registered keeper's name and address.
• "NAME AND ADDRESS OF DRIVER/KEEPER (IF DIFFERENT FROM ABOVE)" – Leave this blank. You are the registered keeper and have already provided those details. There is no requirement to identify the driver.
• "NAME AND ADDRESS OF DRIVER/KEEPER (IF DIFFERENT FROM ABOVE)" – Leave this blank. You are the registered keeper and have already provided those details. There is no requirement to identify the driver.
Providing the registered keeper's name and address is NOT the same as identifying the driver.
Furthermore, when corresponding with PPS, you must distinguish between the registered keeper and the driver.
For example:
DO NOT SAY:
• "I parked there to make an Amazon delivery."
• "I was only there for a few minutes."
• "I didn't realise a permit was required."
• "I was making a delivery and didn't see the signs."
• "I was only there for a few minutes."
• "I didn't realise a permit was required."
• "I was making a delivery and didn't see the signs."
INSTEAD, IF THOSE FACTS NEED TO BE MENTIONED, SAY:
• "The driver stopped to make a delivery."
• "The vehicle was stationary for a short period."
• "The driver was carrying out a delivery."
• "The vehicle was stationary for a short period."
• "The driver was carrying out a delivery."
Always refer to the driver in the third person. Do not make any statement that identifies the keeper as the driver, and do not make any false statement about who was driving.
There is no legal obligation on the registered keeper to identify the driver to a private parking firm. Parliament specifically enacted Schedule 4 of PoFA to provide parking operators with a mechanism for transferring liability to a keeper when the driver remains unidentified, provided the operator complies with the statutory requirements.
If PPS have failed to comply with those requirements, they cannot simply disregard PoFA and presume that the keeper was driving.
Finally, submit the keeper appeal exactly as previously drafted. There is no need to mention Amazon, the delivery or the driver's actions in that initial appeal.
Our primary argument remains PPS's failure to comply with PoFA. The delivery evidence is being preserved as a potential additional argument if the matter progresses to POPLA or, ultimately, court.
Correct the false PoFA certaintyClarify the appeal form instructions
RE: PPS pcn, whilst delivering parcels for amazon. - zyno - 10-14-2026
I will try to get more additional information from amazon regarding the deliveries that day for better evidence & I have also sent the appeal to PPS. I’ll get back to you once they have responded.
Thank you!
